Rock-On Bernie!

It's archived here (4.00 / 2)

all of it !

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by: Randolph06 @ Sat Dec 11, 2010 at 16:12:27 PM UTC

Thanks for adding the link! (4.00 / 1)

I should have done that myself.

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by: Sue Prent @ Sat Dec 11, 2010 at 16:23:49 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Bernie's education for America (4.00 / 1)

I read the comments about Bernie's speech on several blogs. Admittedly they were mainly left of center. But it was heartening to read so many people talk about watching for hours and many feeling they really got educated and others that this was the first truth they'd heard out of Washington for years. Some complained it wasn't a real filibuster but useless theater. But the educating and inspiration that so many got from this speech is far from useless. People from all over the country watched and some previously reluctant to call senators and representatives changed their minds and did so.

We have so many mealy mouthed and fully bought politicians that everyone has forgotten you can't really move people with carefully wrought speeches to offend no one. It takes something real to move people. Of course that is only half the problem the other half being most of these guys are fully owned subsidiaries of corporate America. Bernie did us all a great service yesterday.

peggy luhrs

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by: artemix @ Sat Dec 11, 2010 at 18:07:46 PM UTC

'twas wonderful, indeed, but... (0.00 / 0)

When you say, "I hope he stays right where he is and continues to do what he does best, bringing truth and justice to the seat of power." I can't help but wonder: to what end at this point in time? Bernie is surrounded by a coterie of corrupt narcissists and sycophants that are too busy sucking up to various special interests to look out for their constituents or the nation as a whole (and don't even get me started on the Republicans. What good is it for Bernie to point out the folly of their ways, if even the more progressive Democrats can't muster the courage to stand with him when the time comes to do so? The kabuki is so complete that Bernie really has become reduced to the amusing but irrelevant diversion during intermission.

While it certainly makes this Vermonter endlessly proud to "lay claim" to Bernie, it's also beyond depressing to realize that 1) he is the exception to the rule, and 2) that we are, therefore, pretty much screwed.  

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by: thingwarbler @ Sat Dec 11, 2010 at 18:31:24 PM UTC

True; but realistically, Bernie has far more chance of effecting a better future (4.00 / 1)

from a Senate seat than he would even from a (highly unlikely )successful run for the Presidency. He's demonstrated a willingness and ability to take on the tough battles in the Senate, and as his years there lengthen, so will his reach.  At most, a President has eight years to reform government.  As has been well-demonstrated by Obama, if he attempts that in the first year, he will be painted a dangerous radical and probably brought-up for impeachment; if he hasn't made significant progress toward reform that in the first two years of office, he has no friends at all on either side and is likely to face a primary challenge. Despite the title and some rather undemocratic prerogatives he has at his disposal (which, if exercised "liberally" by a progressive, would probably land him in the pokey), the President is far less powerful in the long-run than are a few long-serving legislators banded into an alliance.d

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by: Sue Prent @ Sat Dec 11, 2010 at 19:03:05 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Near-Filibuster (0.00 / 0)

As much as I really liked Bernie's rhetoric, politically it is, so far and unfortunately, only good for his re-election purposes.    A near-filibuster is like near-beer... mostly unsatisfying.

I would have been more impressed if he had added that along with his verbose traditional attempt at a historical "filibuster"... he was also going to "vote against cloture", and had enough Senate friends with him (41) to block the legislation.

I would think that we would have all learned our lesson from Prez. Obama....
great moving progressive rhetoric does not equal real progressive action.

I'm still for Bernie but would like to see some real progressive acts come out of his political theater.

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by: Green_Hornet @ Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 15:12:18 PM UTC

So... (0.00 / 0)

you think he isn't working hard enough?  I'm not sure I understand what your beef is here with Bernie.  Do you think there's no point in taking a stand if you know you haven't got enough political allies to make it happen?  That's a pretty defeatist perspective and overlooks the long-term possibility of change arising from persistent activism...something in which I, for one, am heavily invested.

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by: Sue Prent @ Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 15:28:46 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I think it's a legit point to bring up... (0.00 / 0)

He could have talked until his face turned red (or blue, rather) with the same effect.  1 hour, 8.5 hours, 10 hours would have all been the same in terms of actually blocking the vote.  

Sure, eight hours brought a lot of attention to the issue (and to Bernie) that wouldn't have come had he not spoken for so long, but did it do a lot in terms of getting his fellow senators to support him?  Did it do anything in terms of changing the direction of the process or content of the bill?    

Of course he is working hard enough!  But was this application of his efforts really the more effective thing he could have done?  Or was it just a moving piece of political theater?  

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by: placlair @ Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 16:27:21 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Okay, let's hear it: (4.00 / 1)

What do you think would have been a more useful alternative?  I am asking quite sincerely because I truly am at a loss to understand what was lacking here.  A "moving piece of political theater;" yes, that it was.  What is wrong with that?  As you probably have noticed, political theater (for good or ill) is the thing that gets people to their feet and to the polling place; and without a groundswell of public emotion to counter the Right's ferverish theater of paranoia, xenophobia and selfishness we will have more and more damaging elections.

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by: Sue Prent @ Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 16:57:30 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

A thought: (0.00 / 0)

There has been some talk about the various house and senate members who oppose the compromise, from different parties and for different reasons.  Why not spend eight hours trying to build a coalition that can stand up to party leaders who are going to try to get everyone to go along with the compromise?  

The bill is being "lit up like a Christmas tree" with pork to get enough Dems on-board, so saying no won't be easy, especially for those members who aren't as independent as Bernie.  He sets a stirring example, but what about one-on-one meetings to get other critics to commit to their opposition?  

There was nothing wrong with what he did: I'm certainly not going to complain about that. Maybe standing up there for eight hours railing against the compromise was the most effective thing he could do... But (and I think we've all learned this from Obama) rhetoric only goes so far in creating change.          

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by: placlair @ Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 19:58:13 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I understand... (4.00 / 2)

... wanting this to have even more impact, and asking Bernie to vote against cloture is fair enough.  But what's with being impressed by the number of people he can get to go along with him?  Or only wanting the people who work for us to stand up for us if all the other cowards and fat cats agree? I'd say that this moving piece of political theater (political theater is not a bad thing in and of itself)was his best chance to:  A) show other senators the value of standing up, and B) show voters that they can demand that THEIR senators stand up.  The other senators will show his courage or they won't; that's not up to him.  Please notice the comment above citing comments on other blogs where people spoke of what they LEARNED from this.

It will also be possible for Dems to reform filibuster rules in the Senate in January -- so far, they've been very reluctant to even think about it. Bernie proved that it's feasible to return to a form of filibuster where someone has to WORK for it.

So, let's see:  he got TONS of press for his principles, his endurance, and his POV. (That would be the principles and POV that support US, btw.) He taught people things that they didn't know about our economic system. He proved there is widespread public support for principled political action by elected officials.  He showed the timorous Democratic Party that there is plenty of room for filibuster reform. He even got some of the media to talk, briefly, about issues that matter to actual people.

But I'd be more impressed if he flew his magic sleigh to Never-Never Land and brought home a new and better Congress, so I can really understand the disappointment.  Not.

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by: MadamPince @ Sun Dec 12, 2010 at 17:59:32 PM UTC

goal (4.00 / 3)

Interesting comments.  So what was the real goal of the Sanders speech?

How come so many people nationwide support legislators that would provide enormous tax benefits to those that need it the least?

Hard for us in Vermont to understand because we don't support people like that.

So, Bernie has to reach people in other states and get them concerned about the aspects of this bill that would be a real loser for the country.  That's not easy to do.

This was a valiant attempt in that direction, in my estimation.  It wouldn't surprise me if many people that caught just a small portion of his speech learned something their legislators, their newspapers, their radio stations and their blogs never told them.

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by: Norman Etkind @ Mon Dec 13, 2010 at 01:40:33 AM UTC