Taking Care of Business

OMG!!! (0.00 / 0)

OMG, Matt is using Dubie as his ghost writer:

"Anyone who says the economy is doing fine in Vermont isn't talking to the same Vermonters I am.

Since 2003, the number of new businesses in Vermont has dropped every single year. Jobs are being lost in all sectors and in all parts of the state and there has been no leadership shown in Montpelier to turn our economy around."

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by: reelvermonter @ Fri Jul 09, 2010 at 01:47:39 AM UTC

Not at all (4.00 / 2)

Dubie is saying "Oooga booga!  The only way businesses will move to VT is if we cut taxes on unearned income yet again," while doing exactly nothing to try to attract businesses (in order to "prove" that those darned businesses just won't come unless the wealthy get even more of the wealth).

Dunne is saying that we need to invest in the infrastructure of our state and actively court new businesses.

There's a world of difference between the two.

Both are looking at the same data (those numbers are real, and the underlying issues need to be addressed) but they are proposing vastly different solutions.

Beware the Everyday Brutality of the Averted Gaze

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by: mataliandy @ Fri Jul 09, 2010 at 03:12:49 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Dubie took language lessons? (0.00 / 0)

Looks like Dubie learned a couple of new words (Oooga Boooga)?  I assume this was done while listening to tapes and simultaneously flying an airplane? .. No, wait; that would be multi-tasking.  Impossible.

But on a serious note, I hope that Matt Dunne has some plans for those people who need jobs but can't find them simply because they made a youthful mistake.  Those "kids" haven't gone to college and likely won't have the chance, but I would hope any new business that comes to Vermont will realize their value none-the-less.  As young adults, many mired in the muck of a felony record, they also want to raise their kids in Vermont.  Hope looks different depending on where we're coming from but hopelessness looks the same for everyone. Please think of these people.

On matters of education and corrections, and in large part, addictions and mental health issues, I hear little to nothing for any change to look forward to.  

I'd like to know more about Matt Dunne and where he stands on all of these issues.  

In bringing in new business and retaining talent in terms of our graduates, all I can do is breath a sigh of relief.  For the years that have passed since being a teenager in southern Vermont, I can't keep track of all the industry that has vanished from this area.  My town seems to have slowly been in some transformation; from an industrious area to a show and tell for tourists with so much emphasis on the out of state buck that it makes my stomach churn.

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by: brattlebarb @ Fri Jul 09, 2010 at 03:48:48 AM UTC

Response to both Reel and Bratt (4.00 / 2)

Thank you for the comments and request for clarity.

Vermont is a difficult place to do business, but not for the reasons Dubie and Douglas describe.  We do not need to slash taxes, hurt the most vulnerable, supersize our schools or destroy our farm and forest land.  We have all of the potential in the world to emerge from this recession ahead of the country by building on the foundation of our superb quality of life, sense of community and natural assets.  But we have to be very proactive before the trend Bratt sees becomes a reality all across the state.

We are last in internet connectivity, 49th in higher education investment, have no plan for job creation and an Agency of Commerce that has done almost nothing to encourage a new generation of entrepreneurs.  We must have these to create new jobs in Vermont.

To Bratt's question, the individuals you mention are very much in my team's vision for economic recovery.  My administration would invest aggressively in programs like YouthBuild to give young people skills in efficiency construction while providing formal course work for a GED or Certificate.  I have also proposed an aggressive micro-enterprise program to provide early capital and support consulting to start new businesses to revitalize our main streets. I launched successful programs using these strategies at AmeriCorps*VISTA and we can do the same in Vermont to build a new middle class by empowering those left behind.

My experience at Google also showed me that folks who excel in computer hardware frequently are those for whom the traditional classroom environment did not work and many Google employees in that area did not even graduate high school.  By building a stronger tech sector and strengthening technology training opportunities. we can provide more jobs across the board.

Finally, by deploying fiber to the home and the most aggressive efficiency investment in the country, my administration will infuse hundreds of millions of dollars into our state economy specifically for those in the construction trades.  

Unlike some of my opponents, I actually welcome Brian Dubie framing the debate about what a bad place we are to do business. My question to him is: Where have you been?

No one is more passionate about the potential of our amazing state than I am, but if we on the left do not recognize that Vermonters are hurting, the economy is suffering and we need strong investment now to put it back on track, we risk a continuation of the same fate as the last four election cycles.  

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by: mattdunne @ Fri Jul 09, 2010 at 12:20:55 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Thank you Mr. Dunne (4.00 / 1)

My experience at Google also showed me that folks who excel in computer hardware frequently are those for whom the traditional classroom environment did not work and many Google employees in that area did not even graduate high school.  By building a stronger tech sector and strengthening technology training opportunities. we can provide more jobs across the board.

(quoted from above)

I am a 3 time high school dropout who self educated in computer software and hardware operation, design, maintenance and the obsoleting of all these. I have educated myself in many more areas including (but not limited to) public broadcasting, animal husbandry, physics, a touch of astronomy, human services, auto and large machinery mechanics, electrical work, a bit of economics and history along with correspondence courses in small business management and some related to my job in the Army as  Military Police.

This is not an exhaustive list.

I've talked to many others who like me did not function well within the formal walls of school buildings but managed to do quite well as individual entrepreneurs. While most were not getting rich, the ones I've talked to who fall into this category are for the most part very happy with their lives.

On the other hand my daughter excels within those same formal walls I had so much trouble with.

We really need to allow education to be tailored to the individual.

Thank you Matt for stating that so concisely.

It's over at http://ramabahama.net ... only it's still under construction (but so is the rest of my life)

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by: Rama Schneider @ Fri Jul 09, 2010 at 13:16:38 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Thanks, Matt (4.00 / 1)

Great answer; but I'd like to emphasize again what brattlebarb has raised on a couple of threads here: we have a disproportionately large percentage of the population here who have already slipped through the cracks.  Not only is this a tragedy in human terms, but it represents a financial burden for the state as a whole, going forward.  The potential for life-long dependency on the state among those who have been lost to the penal system or through failure of the mental health safety net, is only half of the economic equation.  The other half is lost productivity by a significant segment of Vermonters.

As I am confident that our next governor will come from the Democratic ranks, I sincerely hope that all of the candidates are giving serious thought to this present reality.

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by: Sue Prent @ Fri Jul 09, 2010 at 14:17:34 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Fear of the known (4.00 / 2)

Thank-you for taking the time to respond.  

I can't stress enough that there are kids who are failing in school, yet can ace the GED test without further study, and at the same time, there are kids who graduate and can't pass a test in basic competency.  That urgently needs to change.

For those who pass a GED test, it becomes a certificate of their failure and a prediction of their future.  We not only tell them about hopelessness, we insist they live it, then punish them when they do.  There is a tremendous contradiction involved. It's in the fine print that no one reads. The GED should be outlawed or replaced with something more in tune to the individuals who are initially left behind; it's a non-solution and a feel good fix.

I'm happy to hear that Google can ignore the background when it comes to talent, but business in Vermont wants credentials and they don't want felony records even in those who graduate college with honors. Try this pair of shoes on a GED.

Everyone wants to be productive.  Felony records are forever and the sentence doesn't end when the prison sends them back to us. We can continue to demonize people, bring in business and jobs to support a growing population of people (sometimes generational) who are suffering the consequence of youthful mistakes for a lifetime, and still bleed to death.  To include everyone would be to thrive where others die.

Thankfully, Vermont allows the felon to vote; in fact, those who are currently incarcerated can vote.  No one is denied.

I'd like to see Vermont be the first to take back it's forgotten people and put an aggressive plan in place to prevent further explosion of this population; someone has already aptly stated that we are small enough to be nimble with change.

It isn't the fear of the unknown, it's the fear of the known; to take the same path is to ask for the same results.  Let's take a different path.

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by: brattlebarb @ Fri Jul 09, 2010 at 16:17:14 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Great conversation (4.00 / 1)

Proven empowerment strategies like micro-loans and YouthBuild are specifically for those who have fallen through the cracks.  There are many others including some that the GMD community may be able to identify and I would welcome bringing to the campaign.  

I really appreciate the thoughts on the GED.  Open to ideas on how to replace.  

Matt

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by: mattdunne @ Fri Jul 09, 2010 at 17:58:26 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I like these ideas (4.00 / 1)

Thanks for keeping the communication alive.  

I hope Vermont can begin some reform in education and that this would start with the next governor.
There are results coming in from other states who are into reform; Colorado, Alaska are two who are producing some outstanding results.  Maine is climbing on board, as it Kansas City, Missouri.  This is an area where Vermont could shine. I'd like to send some information to your campaign on this very topic.

It is very likely that once reform could root itself, the idea that anyone would drop out is much less likely than it currently is.

Right now, once a student agrees to take the GED test, they cannot go back into their high school and later graduate with their class. This door should never be shut.

Another problem with this is, to both that person who has proven basic competency, many colleges and employers, the GED gives a mixed message.  Is it really as "good as" or "equivalent to" an actual diploma?  The State says it is, so why not let these kids stand with the same cap and gown and get the actual diploma to show an employer or a post graduate school.  Don't call it a GED - SHOW us that it IS such a reliable test of competency that no one need know whether the person who "graduates" has attended class for 4 years or passed this "test" after two.  Hope this demonstrates what I'm talking about.

As far as micro loans and YouthBuild, I am not familiar but will make it a point to learn.

But I still fear leaving too many behind who have already fallen through the cracks.  What can we do for them?  
 

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by: brattlebarb @ Fri Jul 09, 2010 at 19:06:31 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Is this law or local rules? (0.00 / 0)

"Right now, once a student agrees to take the GED test, they cannot go back into their high school and later graduate with their class."  If this is true, I suspect it is a local policy and not specific to Vermoont law.  In fact, it may be contrary to Vermont law.  Someone should check that out.

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by: reelvermonter @ Sat Jul 10, 2010 at 00:31:11 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

I will check both ends.... (4.00 / 1)

A man I know took his GED and passed; later, the college he wanted to attend wouldn't accept the GED, but told him they'd admit him if he went back and finished every class that any other student would have to take.
So, he did.  
But, he had to wait one year to get into the high school, and the catch was, as he explained it to me, that the school did not have to take him because he had taken the GED and was in their eyes "a graduate" in the "alternative", but they could agree to take him on a space basis, if and only if he paid his own tuition. So he did.
He graduated with a class about 6 years his junior, and went on to college.
Then another student was told before taking the test to be sure he wanted to go that route (he was already a full time HS student) because if he took the test and passed, he would not be able to get back into that HS as a full time student should he later change his mind.
If this is NOT true, I am going to enroll this fall!
I will check my statements with both my local high school and the Dept. of Ed. and report what I am able to get, straight from the horses mouth.
Thank you for questioning this; you're absolutely right to suggest this be checked out!

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by: brattlebarb @ Sat Jul 10, 2010 at 02:36:11 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Why on Earth... (0.00 / 0)

...should the state of Vermont be required to pay for the high school education of someone who's already graduated?

I get that employers may have prejudices against people with GEDs, but I'm thinking that's the problem, not the fact that the state shouldn't be required to fund the education of someone who's already graduated.  

If it's true that a GED is equivalent to a diploma, it's a major waste of resources to enroll people with GEDs into high school.  If it's not true, then we've got a much bigger problem.

Musician, Web Designer, Photographer

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by: JulieWaters @ Mon Jul 12, 2010 at 00:15:41 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

I don't buy it (0.00 / 0)

The question to answer is, if the GED is really an equivalent to a diploma, then why are we keeping kids in high school for an average of 2-3 years longer just so they can earn their diploma; seems that would be a more logical "waste of resources", if indeed, the GED and the Diploma are equivalents.
What I'm saying is they're not. How can it possibly be true that someone who completes 1 or 2 years of high school has the same mastery as someone who graduates? (I'm measuring based on HS being a 4 year endeavor) If these two means of "graduation" are truly equal, then we've got a mother load of poor, lost, and extremely bright kids who have somehow learned way beyond their grade level all on their own. I don't buy it.
That being said, if someone opts for the GED, no matter the reason, and later rethinks that decision and wants to return to a classroom, they should be able to return to the classroom and pick up where they left off.
Even then, I'm not so sure a graduate has learned basic competencies, if in fact the measurement of equivalency is measured by test results of those who finished, which is how I believe they've designed that test.
We do have a much bigger problem.  The problem according to those are embarking on education reform is "The current system of public education in this country is not working".
I am hoping Vermont will follow other parts of the country in education reform (north, south and west of Vermont) because I think that the drop out rates will all but vanish and kids will engage in learning the way it's meant to be.
If Vermont is out to bring business here, this is also one way to keep them here. To say we'll invite business to grow and stay in Vermont without thinking about who they will hire is irresponsible.  The deal I'm hearing from at least one of the candidates is "I want my kids to be able to stay in Vermont and raise their kids here".. What if I want the same thing?  If his kids are going to own these new businesses and mine are going to go in to clean the bathrooms during an overnight shift, this doesn't make me happy. Should it?
And what if I'm the one cleaning those bathrooms and decide after two or three years that I'd rather be sitting at one of the desks?  I shouldn't be locked out of my high school for making a decision at 16 years old, to take the GED test and live low income for the rest of my life. Especially when I was told at 16 that the GED is "as good as" only to find out that I can't completely support myself.
I see education as the biggest cost saving measure a state can take.  

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by: brattlebarb @ Mon Jul 12, 2010 at 03:24:32 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

The Business of Government (0.00 / 0)

It has been dismaying to see the paradigm shift from government representing the social and legal interests of the people and local communities to shills for business and development.

Mr. Dunne is showing us his blue dog democrat credentials.

If he really wants to develop VT businesses start by funding strategic start-ups like a beer hops facility (so we can have one in the US), a kosher meat processing facility, a switchgrass pellet processing plant, non-factory type sustainable grass-based farms, etc.

And while one is agitating how about taking a stand to protect small businesses against the predatory actions of larger companies and corporations?

Take the raw milk issue for one as Organic Valley is demanding that their cooperative farmer members sell all of their milk only to them and not by the galleon or quart to the local community.

The other raw milk issue is how factory farms cannot easily meet the hygienic requirements that organic farms regularly do.  And even with the massive drugs used to control disease in factory-sized farms we still have health issue with the pasteurized milk.  Raw milk just turns sour (great in baking) while pasteurized milk just turns bad and must be thrown.

And how do you stand on the issue of factory farm waste collection and raw concentrated spreading before it is turned into composted soil ?  Not to mention the antibiotics laced in that material being spread on soil to grow food?

So Mr. Dunne... Show us where you stand.  With large corporations or with small business?  Or with Vermont individuals and communities?

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by: Green_Hornet @ Fri Jul 09, 2010 at 13:55:44 PM UTC

I've actually made just those kinds of proposals . . . . (4.00 / 2)

Hey Green Hornet.  

Thanks for the follow up question.  

As you will see on my website policy section, I've actually endorsed just those kinds of investments to get us away from depending on commodity dairy.  In fact it was my clear position on the need to invest in processing plants for meat and switchgrass that prompted Bill McKibben to endorse me.  

To succeed economically, we have to leverage our premium brand and build the infrastructure to support it.  That goes for everything from manufacturing to software to agriculture.  We will struggle in the commodity business in any sector, but we can emerge ahead of the country if we focus on our strengths as an innovation state that takes the long view of the economy.

Please do check out the website www.mattdunne.com  Feedback, as always, is welcome.

Matt

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by: mattdunne @ Fri Jul 09, 2010 at 17:52:55 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Boy, I'd sure love to be running for Governor (0.00 / 0)

Let's see...the biggest gripe against Democrat/Progressives is that business leaders "hate" them. Matt Dunne comes out with a pretty impressive list of 26 business leaders, many of whom I know, supporting his campaign.  I believe the proper reaction is "Good, this proves our point...building infrastructure and helping everyone get an equal shot is GOOD for business." (NOTE:  I personally have not decided which of the candidates I'm voting for, not that they care all that much.)

Instead, several commenters look at the announcement and say, "He's no good BECAUSE some business people like him."  Self-defeating only begins to describe this attitude.  No viable candidate will every be "pure" enough for some people, I suppose...

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by: Tom C @ Fri Jul 09, 2010 at 16:35:22 PM UTC

Methinks you may have misread the comments (3.00 / 1)

There isn't a single one that says he's no good because business supports him. The closest to that is one that was posted after you wrote your comment, and it says that he's good because the right kinds of businesses support him.  The only marginally negative one implied that he and Dubie were saying the same thing.

Perhaps you were reading another site and accidentally commented on this one? (Doing so is not as uncommon as one might think.) You may want to re-read.

I think there's been an excellent discussion - of exactly the kind we really need in our politics these days: people asking questions, providing constructive ideas, being involved on important matters, and respectfully sharing and learning from one another.  

Beware the Everyday Brutality of the Averted Gaze

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by: mataliandy @ Sat Jul 10, 2010 at 00:13:10 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

good list (4.00 / 2)

I'm driving my shearer honda over to flatbread for dinner, i think. but where are the brewers?

which reminds me of my pet economic devt. proposal--we've got 18 brewers in the state, but they all buy their barley malt from england because we lack a malting plant. (good weather for growing it here, that's not the problem). so i hope gov. dunne will convene a meeting of these guys and persuade them to cooperate on getting one going!--good jobs, good beer, good state!

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by: bill mckibben @ Fri Jul 09, 2010 at 18:04:26 PM UTC