Pollina mulling Guv run... as a Dem?

Washington Co. Senate (3.00 / 1)

How is Cook Co. Illinois like Washington Co. Vermont? The Democratic machine used dead people to puff the voter rolls in Cook Co. while in Washington Co. VT the voters use not so alive people to represent them.  Let's face it, Washington Co. senator Bill Doyle (with all due respect) was declared clinically dead about 17 years ago.

The other GOP senator, Phil Scott, is almost certain to leave his Washington Co. senate seat to run for Lt. Governor.   Washington Co is looking at one open seat and one really stale one.

If Tony Prog/Ind/Democrat/Stassonite is serious about running for an office where he has a chance of actually winning and where he actually has a skillset that might offer something to the political process, he needn't look any further than his Washington Co. back door.  

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by: Pschauk Paughpette @ Tue Nov 10, 2009 at 17:37:31 PM UTC

Would be more than happy to see him in the Senate. (4.00 / 2)

He could be a good advocate there.  But in the governor's race? That's just another headache.

mbreuer.vt@gmail.com

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by: Matthew Breuer @ Tue Nov 10, 2009 at 18:00:13 PM UTC

Dem primary (4.00 / 1)

During the last election cycle, I went to the Farm Show in Barre to ask Anthony if he would run in the Dem primary to see if he actually had the support of Democrats in VT as he claimed.

He told me that because he was a Progressive he could not compromise and run in the Democratic primary.

I guess something must have changed since then.

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by: Linda in the Northeast Kingdom @ Tue Nov 10, 2009 at 18:54:50 PM UTC

Probably... (0.00 / 0)

Didn't wanna fall victim to Diamondstone Syndrome.

You can read JD's latest at five before chaos. Politics. Godlessness. Music. Films of questionable quality. It's all there, folks.

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by: JDRyan @ Wed Nov 11, 2009 at 01:12:42 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Better that he joins the primary pack (4.00 / 1)

instead of running as a third party candidate.  That would NOT be a productive scenario!

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by: Sue Prent @ Tue Nov 10, 2009 at 19:05:53 PM UTC

Both, unfortunately (0.00 / 0)

Unfortunately, he can (and likely will) do both.  Vermont allows sore-loser primary candidates to refile as an independent after the primary.  Alternatively, he could hedge his bets with a simultaneous write-in campaign on the Progressive primary ballot - where 250 votes is a guaranteed win.

If he enters the Democratic primary, we must insist that he respect the results if he loses and not run under any other banner.  After all, he is asking us to respect the results if he wins.

Unfortunately, Anthony's behavior last cycle -- insisting he must run as a Progressive, therefore could not even consider running as an independent so that he could seek formal Democratic Party support a la Bernie...then running as an independent -- showed he is quite willing to play whatever spoiler games he can.

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by: CarbonCopy @ Fri Nov 13, 2009 at 12:08:54 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Hasn't the Main Arguement... (4.00 / 1)

... on GMD been that Pollina (and Prog's in general) SHOULD run in Dem primary's, rather than play spoiler?  I'm confused about all this confusion.

"GMD's once proud libertarian-socialist"

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by: wdh3 @ Tue Nov 10, 2009 at 20:03:17 PM UTC

What confusion? (0.00 / 0)

Seriously - don't know what you're referring to.

Nullius perfectus est

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by: odum @ Tue Nov 10, 2009 at 22:27:36 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Referring to your screeds (0.00 / 0)

or are you being sarcastic?  I can't tell.

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by: frankly @ Wed Nov 11, 2009 at 00:05:36 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Ah. The genius caucus heard from. (1.67 / 3)

Somehow I'm not surprised you "can't tell."

This site might be more your speed.

Nullius perfectus est

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by: odum @ Wed Nov 11, 2009 at 00:46:46 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Just (0.00 / 0)

Talking about the general tone of the comments above... and the relative lack of "yeah! finally, good choice!" from those around here who've been clamoring for this approach.

"GMD's once proud libertarian-socialist"

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by: wdh3 @ Wed Nov 11, 2009 at 03:16:37 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Yeah, but that's not confusion (4.00 / 1)

I think there's a mix. Some of what you say, some "that's the right approach," some questioning of what you have to admit is a pretty big turnaround.

I do think you're seeing a lot of Pollina fatigue, for lack of a better term.

On the other hand, the people who are rooting for him to run for Senate - and I encounter them offline too - are at some level rooting for him to do some sort of political reinvention that maintains the good, while ejecting the baggage, and the idea of a change of scale/venue/context (statewide ambitions to more local) seems like a way to do that. I think that's - generally that I've seen, anyway - a reaction/impulse that comes generally from a positive place of optimism. Hell, I'd put myself in that category. I'd still like to see the intra-liberal demonization stop, or at least minimize as much as possible.

Nullius perfectus est

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by: odum @ Wed Nov 11, 2009 at 03:45:54 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Well.. (0.00 / 0)

Pollina fatigue is indeed a factor. Some of us get tired of those who seem to make a career out of running for office and losing.  

You can read JD's latest at five before chaos. Politics. Godlessness. Music. Films of questionable quality. It's all there, folks.

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by: JDRyan @ Wed Nov 11, 2009 at 12:45:17 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Yes. (3.00 / 1)

Hasn't the Main Arguement on GMD been that Pollina (and Prog's in general) SHOULD run in Dem primary's, rather than play spoiler?

That's definitely my position. And my position is not limited to Pollina, but to all core liberals/progressives (small "p"), in general. The left needs to find the most effective vehicle to elevate the most liberal and winnable candidate. Currently, the Democratic primary is that vehicle.

My 1st preference is IRV, which is a no-brainer & must-have in a State like Vermont with a Constitutional plurality requirement. With the plurality requirement, IRV is the best approach to attaining a majority vote without watering down the potential choices.

Absent IRV, however, the Democratic primary is the unqualified most effective place to establish who the liberal candidates are who also stand the best chance to win in November. Remember, moving a big chunk of the left out the Democratic primary waters down that selection process too. The Democratic party, as an entity, cannot afford to be any more conservative than it already is.

sláinte,
cl

-- Religion is like sodomy: both can be harmless when practiced between consenting adults but neither should be imposed upon children.

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by: Caoimhin Laochdha @ Wed Nov 11, 2009 at 18:45:53 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Absolutely (0.00 / 0)

I was thrilled when I heard Zuckerman was floating the idea of running in the D primary: http://greenmountaindaily.com/...

And agreed on IRV. It allows the primary and general to co-exist on the same ballot.

Nullius perfectus est

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by: odum @ Wed Nov 11, 2009 at 19:40:09 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

absolutely right (4.00 / 1)

this primary is shaping up to be IRV-lite, and if Zuckerman and Pollina were in, it would be incredibly interesting. my guess is it would tug the whole enterprise somewhat to the left--unless some one of the candidates thought there was suddenly some serious real estate opening up on the center right.

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by: bill mckibben @ Thu Nov 12, 2009 at 15:54:14 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

...which could actually happen (0.00 / 0)

if Pollina does join in and the primary is then perceived to be taking a sharp left.

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by: Sue Prent @ Thu Nov 12, 2009 at 19:11:16 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

RE: IRV lite: Which is one of the reasons -- (0.00 / 0)

aside from basic logistics and good policy, that IRV is so appealing.  

In Vermont, it presents an opportunity to move the Democratic party to the left by either advancing more liberal nominees or making (helping) eventual nominees remain truer to the liberal political agenda that an effective representative democracy needs to accomplish anything worth doing.

sláinte,
cl

-- Religion is like sodomy: both can be harmless when practiced between consenting adults but neither should be imposed upon children.

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by: Caoimhin Laochdha @ Fri Nov 13, 2009 at 03:50:15 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Even better ... (0.00 / 0)

IRV presents EVERY voter in Vermont, (left, right, middle, up, down, charm, strange, top, bottom, sore-in-the-crotch-from-fence-sitting ... whatever) the best shot at voting their own personal preferences.

I would suggest there is no guarantee what the results of IRV usage would be.

It's over at http://ramabahama.net ... only it's still under construction (but so is the rest of my life)

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by: Rama Schneider @ Fri Nov 13, 2009 at 12:18:33 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Innnteresting... (4.00 / 1)

I think he needs to make up his mind so Progressives and progressive Dems have an idea of the playing field.  I have no problems with him running in the primary and in fact would love to see him win, but the progressive base needs to solidify around someone early on.

Regardless, I don't think Dubie would win against any of the candidates.

Agitate.Liberate.Create.

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by: vtmarkvt @ Tue Nov 10, 2009 at 20:09:49 PM UTC

'Your lips to God's ear! (4.00 / 1)

But let's not get over-confident.

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by: Sue Prent @ Tue Nov 10, 2009 at 20:17:05 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Dem primary (0.00 / 0)

My point was that I strongly wanted him to run in the Dem primary last time.  I said that if he wanted my support, he would have to do so and win.  If Pollina had chosen to do it, I doubt that Douglas would have won.  We could have had a strong and united offense against Douglas,

If he wants to run again, I again would only consider voting for him if he won the primary.

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by: Linda in the Northeast Kingdom @ Tue Nov 10, 2009 at 21:01:24 PM UTC

Dem primary (0.00 / 0)

Nice, so in a SIX way Dem primary we would have:

1.  A Secretary of State who won't take a clear position on anything, who speaks in vague platitudes, and whom many believe is a fool
2.  A Senator some consider so slimy politically in the halls of power that nobody outside of his home county would vote for him
3.  A Senator so far off the radar screen she's almost unknown outside of her home county
4.  A Senator who once was defeated by the presumptive Republican nominee
5.  A former Senator who once was defeated by the presumptive Republican nominee
6.  And now, a soon-to-be former Prog who has never even run for town dog-catcher, much less won statewide office

100% divided by 6 = 16.666%  So one of the above might need only garner 17% of the Democratic primary vote to be the nominee.  Will that person then garner 50.1% of the vote in the general election against an very well known, popular, genial, anti-choice empty suit who is too careful to say anything controversial?  Perhaps if Mike Bernhardt runs as an independent....let's hope so!

Sheesh!

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by: GeorgeLTirebiter @ Tue Nov 10, 2009 at 22:32:07 PM UTC

uh oh (0.00 / 0)

Correct me if I'm wrong.

The D primary can easily be manipulated by Republicans that choose to vote in the D primary because they have, essentially, no contest in the R primary.

It will only take a few votes with a crowded field to skew the results.

So look out!

PJ

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by: Peter Joes @ Tue Nov 10, 2009 at 22:50:13 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Another outbreak of (0.00 / 0)

the very rare furred turtle effect from some years back?

 

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by: BP @ Tue Nov 10, 2009 at 23:54:20 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I think you rather underestimate the field. (4.00 / 2)

And overestimate Dubie's personal charm.

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by: Sue Prent @ Tue Nov 10, 2009 at 22:41:10 PM UTC

Sorry, that comment was meant as a reply to George. (0.00 / 0)

I keep hitting the wrong reply buttons!  Sorry.

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by: Sue Prent @ Tue Nov 10, 2009 at 22:42:05 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Point taken, Sue, but...... (0.00 / 0)

I don't underestimate the field.  They are all smart people, and most of them savvy politicians.  I think most of the field have the best of motives and all are likely better than the current administration.  There are some I prefer and some I don't, but knowing what I know today I'd vote for any of them over Dubie.  But I find there are many who idly dismiss Dubie's personality and uncritically assume that 2010 must be a change year because of Douglas fatigue. Dubie is affable, knows the state, and has beat (actually) three of the six possible candidates in past elections.  I want to win the battle, and the Dems and Progs cannot win it if they overestimate their own appeal and underestimate Dubie's appeal.  

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by: GeorgeLTirebiter @ Wed Nov 11, 2009 at 18:21:48 PM UTC

[ Parent ]