Open Thread - Kidblogging

You know... (0.00 / 0)

... that picture is just too darn small JO. Can't you make it bigger?????

I predict by the time Forrester and Hayden go to college it will cost $80,000-$90,000...... per year. So the cost of education is first and foremost on my list.  

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by: Christian Avard @ Tue Aug 05, 2008 at 22:51:14 PM UTC

This should be (0.00 / 0)

A letter to the editor or op-ed piece in every paper/blog/citizen journalism site in the US. It's fundamentally where we all can agree, isn't it?

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by: annikee @ Wed Aug 06, 2008 at 02:14:27 AM UTC

I had a conversation with a friend of mine a few years ago... (4.00 / 2)

...she was around 18 years old, and a little worried about the future.  We ended up talking about Vermont Yankee, and how frustrating it was to have conversations about it, how some people were so polarizing in their opposite views about the plant.  

The conversation basically boiled down to her being really pissed off about the use of the plant and the reliance on the plant and being very hostile towards people who would defend its use.

In my middle age I have found myself in the position of being the moderating voice in a great many discussions.  This is something that I never would have expected when I was 18, when I was pretty pissed off about everything (except the guitar, 'cause I've been awesome at that for over twenty years now).

Anyway, so I was explaining to her where a lot of people who are defending the plant are coming from.  It basically boiled down to explaining the concept of cognitive dissonance: people who defend the use of nuclear power when there's an aging and decaying power plant that's being mismanaged nearby do so because they, emotionally, have to.  

It's simple: you want what's best for yourself and your family, but you don't have the resources to figure out what that is.  So you do what's best short-term and hope.  You put aside the things that aren't consistent with what you hope to be true because there's too much going on to be willing to think beyond this.

Maybe I'm thinking along these lines because I'm dealing with an annoying virus right now, and though I'm sure I'm going to recover from it soon enough, the diabetes, being an autoimmune disorder, sometimes makes me a bit more fearful than I used to be when ill.  I wonder what damage my illness will do to my body before it recovers.  

Similarly, I wonder what's going on with our planet: we've done so much damage that I'm not clear that we have the resources to recover.  I believe we can undo much of the damage, but in my heart, I don't know how realistic that is.  I think a lot of my belief in our ability to solve these problems is my own cognitive dissonance: I can't give up hope on this, not because I think there is necessarily a good chance that we'll work it out, but because I don't see any other choice.  I have to believe in a better future because to do otherwise would be to give in to despair.

I'm sorry to be writing something so pessimistic.  As a word of comfort, I didn't think we would handle the challenges of Y2K either, so I may just be more pessimistic than I should :)

Musician, Web Designer, Photographer

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by: JulieWaters @ Wed Aug 06, 2008 at 11:12:56 AM UTC

I hate to go off on a tangent, but (0.00 / 0)

Do you really believe that your child hasn't any class or financial advantages?

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by: shesright @ Wed Aug 06, 2008 at 13:04:57 PM UTC

Lower middle class (4.00 / 2)

Deep enough in debt we have no savings, and no prospect of savings. Neither myself or my wife come from wealthy families.

It's all relative isn't it? And relative to the rest of the US, I'd say he has no class or financial advantages, but no overt class or financial disadvantages. He's gonna be stuck at "zero" on the number line, like so many others. He does have gender and race based social advantages. And he may have sexual preference based ones as well, we'll see.

Why do you ask? Do you have some insight into my finances? Can you ask the creditors to stop calling every day?

Nullius perfectus est

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by: odum @ Wed Aug 06, 2008 at 14:19:33 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Well, (0.00 / 0)

I have no insight into your finances, but I get tired of middle-class, college-educated, married people saying that their children have no advantages.

It is all relative; I'll give you that.  But, being middle-class is a class advantage.

There are people better off than you, but you have a lot in the way of advantages you can pass on to your child that other children do not benefit from, specifically those coming from single-parent homes, uneducated parents, poverty, urban areas with gang activity, and so forth.

Start by teaching him to save money, so he doesn't need a social safety net during an economic down turn, to live within his means, instead of using credit, and that health insurance is a necessity - right up there with rent and food - not optional - like cable and going out on Friday nights.  And teach him to appreciate the things he has, instead of focusing on what others have.

Regarding your finances, I'm no expert, but we did manage to wipe out all of our consumer debt, stop using credit, and start saving, all on a single, modest income, so I know a few things.  Have you ever read the blog "The Simple Dollar"?  It is a great resource for getting your finances in order.  (thesimpledollar.com)  I recommend the "My Story" section, too.

We used a couple of really good books on the subject, but they use a biblical approach.

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by: shesright @ Wed Aug 06, 2008 at 17:34:38 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I'll take it as a compliment... (4.00 / 3)

....that you think I'm "college educated." Never finished college, actually.

And finances are looking up, thank you. It's just a long, slow slog.

As for how I raise my children... while I figured you would read this and be... er... motivated to wax patronizing and right-wing doctrinaire about what I am, or am not, teaching my children (given that its an reactionary-right wing article of faith that anybody in poor financial straits deserves to be there, and is therefore simply suffering from character failure), my bet was that you would have the tact not to go there publicly. Oh well.

Perhaps making assumptions about what moral lessons are missing in my parenting is not a good idea, given that you have absolutely no information to go on besides an unwavering commitment to an extremely particularized worldview, that is likely to fragile to accommodate any evidence of real-world deviations.

Back on topic, I'm guessing that your answer to the question I posed is a resounding yes.

Nullius perfectus est

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by: odum @ Wed Aug 06, 2008 at 17:49:14 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I apologize (0.00 / 0)

for assuming you were educated. ;)

I wasn't assuming what you were or were not teaching your children, but I can see now that it reads that way.  I cut a paragraph out of the original.

The list of things you can teach him was meant as the things you have the knowledge to teach him that some parents lack.  (Meaning, those are some of the advantages your children have over people in a lower social class.)

Admittedly, the paragraph I cut out made my intentions less obvious, but it didn't help that you read into it your own assumptions about me and my "fragile" world-view.

I don't think that people "deserve" bad situations or that it is necessarily a character failure, but I don't think that our bad situations are other people's responsibility, either.

I was not trying to be patronizing, either.  I just think that it is more logical to teach our children how they can be more successful in the reality of the world we live in, rather than bank on our hopes that things will be different.

As to the answer to your question, I don't think it is too much to ask, but I also don't think that you should be able to use the law to compel other people to support your own vision of a perfect society, whether or not they agree, by forcefully taking their private property.

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by: shesright @ Wed Aug 06, 2008 at 20:15:14 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Fair enough (0.00 / 0)

I retract the umbridge. I was perhaps a bit too primed for you to cast judgment. My bad.

Nullius perfectus est

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by: odum @ Wed Aug 06, 2008 at 20:18:01 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I think (4.00 / 2)

you have gone too far

we have been "forcefully taking" peoples "private" property for a very long time; or are you opposed to taxes of any kind? or zoning?

people in community have been making laws to control / influence behavior for ages; typically, such laws are based on the community's vision of a better / more just society (admittedly, it doesn't always work)

so it is not just Odum's "vision" of a better / perfect society; it's the collective wisdom of voters, elected officials, and judges over hundreds of years

seriously, I would not have thought anyone would argue against democratic institutions that create and enforce laws, some of which "forcefully" take property

and BTW, you seem to imply that "private property" has been created and enhanced solely by the sweat of individuals; as I hope you will acknowledge, a great deal of "private property" has been created by the efforts of the community and its members; many of whom get little or no reward; for example, zoning (hated by the Right) has helped increase property values; and so on

the law is constantly used to "compel other people to support [their] vision of a perfect society"; Bush and friends think it's OK and appropriate for the wealthy to pay less in taxes; I don't agree and am forced to either pay more to make up for the shortfall or lose services or necessary public investments as a result; but those laws are being imposed on me (as is the war in Iraq, which is diverting my tax dollars); that's democracy (albeit not very functional)

so exactly what is it you don't like about democratic institutions?

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by: Doug Hoffer @ Wed Aug 06, 2008 at 22:01:33 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

yeah (0.00 / 0)

She's that way... ;)

Nullius perfectus est

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by: odum @ Wed Aug 06, 2008 at 22:49:51 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Advantages (0.00 / 0)

I can't speak for Odum, but it doesn't sound like he's saying his son is disadvantaged, but he isn't advantaged, either.  The odds may not be stacked against him, but they aren't stacked in his favor, either.  His kid is never going to get into Harvard because, even though he's a 'C' student, daddy endowed a research wing.

-M

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by: Mike Eldred @ Wed Aug 06, 2008 at 18:41:19 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

He is advantaged (0.00 / 0)

Don't kid yourself.  Any healthy white American male who is raised in a decent, loving home is hugely advantaged in life.  Puts him in a better position than 5 of the 6 billion people on this planet, who face much greater challenges.  

Does that negate Odum's points about access to education, health care and a clean environment?  Nope.    

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by: SPS @ Wed Aug 06, 2008 at 19:32:56 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Oh, here we go... (0.00 / 0)

I guess my point was that there's a difference between "advantaged" and "not disadvantaged," if you know what I mean.  There are no guarantees for him.  His future is not backed by wealth, influence, or power.  
But if you want to argue that being non-American and female is a disadvantage, you'll want to take that up with my wife.  I suspect she'll laugh.


-M

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by: Mike Eldred @ Wed Aug 06, 2008 at 20:05:02 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I think we need a new term here (0.00 / 0)

my vote's on "antiunnotdisadvantaged"

Musician, Web Designer, Photographer

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by: JulieWaters @ Wed Aug 06, 2008 at 21:39:28 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I like the understated. (0.00 / 0)

I'd go for the simple "vantaged"

-M

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by: Mike Eldred @ Wed Aug 06, 2008 at 21:46:13 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I'm Left (0.00 / 0)

"..."instead of using credit"- Yes, I wish Reagan hadn't given the right of way to financial institutions to allow people to believe they were middle-class by "Easy" credit spending.

"...and that health insurance is a necessity..."- Again, we agree. And EVERY American should have it, like the other grown-up countries do for their people. Not just those who make enough for the outrageous, unregulated, racketeering insurance companies who cover whatever they feel like covering and do everything to deny coverage. Every citizen. Without question, without worry.

"...like cable and going out on Friday nights."- Well, I haven't had cable for 2 years and I haven't been out on a Friday Night for pleasure in longer. So this means nothing to me and plenty of others.

"...And teach him to appreciate the things he has, instead of focusing on what others have."- That's Almost Buddhist! Just a little more stretching, to "...instead of making your happiness having what you want, make it wanting what you have."

But you're getting there. I'm proud of you.

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by: annikee @ Wed Aug 06, 2008 at 18:48:26 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Is he? (0.00 / 0)

Is he making the "loser" symbol with his fingers?

You can read JD's latest at five before chaos. Politics. Godlessness. Music. Films of questionable quality. It's all there, folks.

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by: JDRyan @ Wed Aug 06, 2008 at 13:59:56 PM UTC

He's signing an "L" (4.00 / 1)

He was in the middle of spelling out "Help me!  I'm stuck in a house with crazy people!"

Musician, Web Designer, Photographer

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by: JulieWaters @ Wed Aug 06, 2008 at 14:28:26 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Yeah (0.00 / 0)

He was referring to us,  'cause he'd seen the Daysie results.

Nullius perfectus est

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by: odum @ Wed Aug 06, 2008 at 14:50:38 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Dude! (0.00 / 0)

Next year the plan is to start using the kids as props before the Daysies vote, okay?

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by: Jack McCullough @ Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 02:51:55 AM UTC