Congress to cave into Bush on war... again

OK (0.00 / 0)

Save for the easy stuff (abortion, bla bla) can some of you give some credit to Rama's position now?

"GMD's once proud libertarian-socialist"

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by: wdh3 @ Sat Dec 08, 2007 at 06:30:35 AM UTC

No. (0.00 / 0)

It's still a generalization (and a really tired cliche). If one third to one half of the Dems vote against this, it hardly validates what he says. I'll leave the dualistic thinking to Bush, thank you. As most things in life, it's not "either/or". There's a whole lot in between. And most importantly, it solves nothing.

And that's not to say I'm happy about this, or that there aren't  a bunch of spineless Dems out there. I just don't get into slogans, especially the "all this are blah blah" type.  

You can read JD's latest at five before chaos. Politics. Godlessness. Music. Films of questionable quality. It's all there, folks.

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by: JDRyan @ Sat Dec 08, 2007 at 06:42:06 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Point Well Taken (4.00 / 1)

But the fact still remains, the Dems, who themselves claim were elected into a majority on the "end the war" tide, still aren't willing to stand up and end the war.  That is really what I'm getting at.

As for "it's still a generalization"- um yeah, as with most politics; some truth, some not-so-truth, and the rest is for history to decipher.

"GMD's once proud libertarian-socialist"

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by: wdh3 @ Sat Dec 08, 2007 at 06:56:55 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Really? (0.00 / 0)

But the fact still remains, the Dems, who themselves claim were elected into a majority on the "end the war" tide, still aren't willing to stand up and end the war.  That is really what I'm getting at.

Many of the NEW Democrats were elected on a let's get out of Iraq tide, but a lot of the leadership was claiming, even immediately after the elections, that they were elected on a moderate centrist tide.  

But the fact is, people who do the right thing 50% of the time are far better than people who do the wrong thing 90% of the time.  (And they're all better than Lieberman).

Musician, Web Designer, Photographer

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by: JulieWaters @ Sat Dec 08, 2007 at 10:49:03 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Maybe I'll save folks time and just put up a link to this standard response... (0.00 / 0)

...that always emerges when it again and again gets pointed out how inaccurate, unreasonable and non-productive it is when people make absolute sweeping generalizations in these political contexts. Here it is:

Of course, generalizations are deceptive and have to be taken with a grain of salt, but you just HAVE to admit that all (members of a fill-in-the-blank  institutional group) are (restate original generalization)

Heh. It's even more entertaining when people who consider themselves left-libertarians are the ones defining people based on their institutional associations... is that personalizing big institutions? de-individualizing individuals? both?  

Nullius perfectus est

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by: odum @ Sat Dec 08, 2007 at 16:47:08 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

or maybe some credit should go to Vermont war protesters (4.00 / 1)

...despite the outcry against lack of decorum or what-have-you from the recent attempts to bring this issue to Welch in his B-ton office or in a public meeting, I think it's time to acknowledge that some of the anti-war activists are a bit ahead of the ball on this issue.  While some of us  (generally speaking -- I'm not pointing the finger at anyone here) have been parsing the process and claiming new-found expertise in the art of war and war operations, the few, the obnoxious, the unwelcome, and the painfully uncompromising war protesters have, in my opinion, understood exactly what direction this issue has been going for quite a long time now.  Patience is always a virtue, but ya gotta know that someone's asking you to hold the rope a little longer because there's a big surprise on the other end.

I'm not an anti-war protester.  I sit at home and peddle my thoughts online and in the op/ed pages like most folks.  But   I appreciate what the war protesters have been telling us, even if it hurts:  that American voters are being played; that American ownership of Iraq has no end coming for a long, long time; that our leaders think American's are dumb enough to believe them every single time we're being lied to.  

Thanks, JD, for writing this.  Most inspiring was your last line:

I've seen this so many times, I'm running out of things to say. Perhaps that's what they want to happen.What do we do now?

What will it take to let Congress know that we don't want them to continue funding a war without strings attached?  A letter to the editor?  A blog diary?  An annoying yet peaceful sit-down in your Rep's local office?  A loud, cantankerous meeting with your Rep?  Well, all of these steps have been taken in a somewhat logical, escalating sequence.  Do we expect Welch or any other member of the House to vote against funding if we start over from the beginning again with a letter to the editor?  Do we just yawn and say, "Wait until 2008."  again?

I'm not looking for a call to action.  I'd just like to see a Vermont Congressman vote against funding the war.  That's all.  From his heart and not because he's counted the votes and struck a "let me do this" deal with Pelosi.  

Just do what you said you would do, Peter.  That's all.

Nate Freeman

Northfield, VT

natefreeman@gmail.com

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by: mydog @ Sat Dec 08, 2007 at 18:25:14 PM UTC

to clarify (0.00 / 0)

...despite the outcry against lack of decorum or what-have-you from the recent attempts to bring this issue to Welch in his B-ton office or in a public meeting.

My biggest concern about that meeting was that it seemed to me from the reports that it was (a) framed in a deceptive fashion and (b) made the anti-war activists in the room look like a bunch of people who would have tarred and feathered Welch, except they forgot the tar.  And the feathers.  And the barrel for the tar.  And the fuel to heat the tar.  Did I mention the feathers already?

From my point of view, it set the anti-occupation movement in Vermont back.  I'm all in favor of activism and even aggressive and distasteful activism.  I'm not in favor of ineffective and useless activism.

Musician, Web Designer, Photographer

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by: JulieWaters @ Sat Dec 08, 2007 at 19:42:09 PM UTC

[ Parent ]