Let Me Rephrase That...Another Take On H.520

this argument makes more sense to me (0.00 / 0)

We'll have to see how it plays out.

Nullius perfectus est

---

by: odum @ Thu Jun 28, 2007 at 01:46:33 AM UTC

I hope so... (0.00 / 0)

Because it's as close to your argument as I could come! :)

(Perhaps, you may have noticed that I changed Gaye Symington's "saddened" line to "disappointed" this morning....just for you, John.)

-AB

---The victors called the revolution a triumph of liberty; but now and then liberty, in the slogans of the strong, means freedom from restraint in the exploitation of the weak.

--Will Durant, "The Story of Civilization: Caesar & Christ"

---

by: goDLC @ Thu Jun 28, 2007 at 10:46:04 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Plays out? (0.00 / 0)

What's to play out? They've taken the VY tax off the table, he won't even sit down to talk to them, so what are they going to do? It doesn't seem feasible that they could go back, keep the VY tax, and sell it to the reluctant membership based on Douglas's unwillingness to talk to them.

 There are grassroots Democrats all across the state who are pissed off at leadership, and this isn't going to help.

---

by: Jack McCullough @ Thu Jun 28, 2007 at 03:10:02 AM UTC

whats to play out... (0.00 / 0)

...is whether or not they cave on the actual content of the bill.

I'm beginning to think that the biggest flaw of the VY tax proposal is that this funding source itself has become more important to many on the left than the actual global warming-fighting provisions in the law itself. The support for renewables, the expansion of Efficiency Vermont - the real revolutionary stuff - seems to be secondary at best to a lot of folks, who were really amped over that VY tax.

Nullius perfectus est

---

by: odum @ Thu Jun 28, 2007 at 03:34:33 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

How does this work? (0.00 / 0)

I'd like to, John, but I don't see it playing out the way you and I would both like it to. Meanwhile, every Democrat I talk to about this is pissed, and every Prog is saying, "You see, this is what the Democrats are like." It doesn't look like a winning strategy to me.

---

by: Jack McCullough @ Thu Jun 28, 2007 at 04:05:12 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

I think that's my point, Jack... (0.00 / 0)

In my original post, I alluded to Limbaugh's "carrying water" comments...

...I am usually more than willing to carry water for Democratic Leadership...I trust Leahy, Sanders, and Welch to do the best they can to stop Bush...I argued against second guessing them on the impeachment issue....

....I supported Gaye Symington's decision not to second guess them, too.

I am, in other words, a pretty loyal democrat ... when they lost someone like me, I humbly assert, it was a sign that they had REALLY cut too close to the bone.

---The victors called the revolution a triumph of liberty; but now and then liberty, in the slogans of the strong, means freedom from restraint in the exploitation of the weak.

--Will Durant, "The Story of Civilization: Caesar & Christ"

---

by: goDLC @ Thu Jun 28, 2007 at 10:38:22 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Well,,, (0.00 / 0)

Maybe it's a learning moment for you, too, and I say this with the best intentions... loyalty to a party usually involves you getting taken advantage of and let down. It's loyalty to ideas that get you somewhere. Having a "D' behind one's name shouldn't be enough. I have had no confidence in Symington from day one. I've got mixed feelings on our delegation, but I'm certainly not "loyal" to them. They have done nothing to deserve my "loyalty".

You can read JD's latest at five before chaos. Politics. Godlessness. Music. Films of questionable quality. It's all there, folks.

---

by: JDRyan @ Thu Jun 28, 2007 at 13:43:04 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Not to get to far into a side issue... (0.00 / 0)

...but I have to say that party discipline has it's place.  Ideals are the stars by which we steer, but we must also do things of practical, earthly value...and to do that, we must all pull on the same rope in the same direction from time to time.  This is why I give our congressional delegation the benefit of the doubt.  I am "loyal" in the sense that I am going to work really hard to accept the direction chosen by the elected leaders of the time until such time as I absolutely cannot, in good faith, compromise my own opinions any further...

As far I am concerned, someone with a D behind their name gets the benefit of the doubt until they prove they are not worthy (can we say Lieberman?) of trust.  Someone with an "R" is not trusted until they do something to earn it. 

 

---The victors called the revolution a triumph of liberty; but now and then liberty, in the slogans of the strong, means freedom from restraint in the exploitation of the weak.

--Will Durant, "The Story of Civilization: Caesar & Christ"

---

by: goDLC @ Thu Jun 28, 2007 at 19:23:29 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

and I've been sayin (0.00 / 0)

since my first post on it that I dont think its good strategy.

But thats different from saying they just gave up on the bill, when - again - the bill is intact. The problem is that they've set themselves up for failure when it counts.

Nullius perfectus est

---

by: odum @ Thu Jun 28, 2007 at 11:07:40 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Yes, you have.... (0.00 / 0)

In all fairness, you have done.  But I think, as you write in your new diary on the subject, you might have missed the true magnitude of the blunder.

Again...I've been a bit bitter on this, but I mean none of it personally. 

 

---The victors called the revolution a triumph of liberty; but now and then liberty, in the slogans of the strong, means freedom from restraint in the exploitation of the weak.

--Will Durant, "The Story of Civilization: Caesar & Christ"

---

by: goDLC @ Thu Jun 28, 2007 at 18:35:44 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I'm willing to see where this goes (0.00 / 0)

I really want this energy bill to pass, and while I like the idea of taxing Vermont Yankee fairly to get it funded, I'm not nearly as concerned about that as I am about the energy bill itself.

The fact is, right now, there doesn't seem to be enough support for the bill as is to get it passed, and there were several people who voted against it citing the VY tax as their only concern.  This might actually shift things enough to override a veto. 

Or it might not.  We'll know soon enough. 

I don't have a problem with the Democratic leadership making one concession if they're sure they can get it passed with that concession, and I hope they -can- get it passed like this. This seems to be more a strategic PR mistake on their part than a policy error and I'm a little tired of focusing so much on the PR aspect of everything.

Musician, Web Designer, Photographer

---

by: JulieWaters @ Fri Jun 29, 2007 at 10:06:52 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Ahhh... (0.00 / 0)

I feel less like a lone voice in the wilderness. Was beginning to think I must be delusional.

Nullius perfectus est

---

by: odum @ Fri Jun 29, 2007 at 12:07:00 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

This explains a few things... (0.00 / 0)

I'm probably just a figment of Odum's imagination.

--possibly julie

Musician, Web Designer, Photographer

---

by: JulieWaters @ Fri Jun 29, 2007 at 21:03:00 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Great speech (0.00 / 0)

You should be writing for Gaye and Shummy.

---

by: Jack McCullough @ Thu Jun 28, 2007 at 03:10:40 AM UTC

Michael Colby Sums it up... (0.00 / 0)

Here - http://vermontsnarkyboy.blogspot.com/2007/06/cowardly-lion-dems-strike-out-again.html

 Shumlin is an asshole.

---

by: peterbrunovt @ Thu Jun 28, 2007 at 05:29:58 AM UTC

lost oppertunity (3.00 / 1)

How much will Douglas have to pay the Democratic Party to keep these clowns in positions of "leadership"? They certainly make it EASY FOR HIM TO ROLL OVER THEM.

yODA

---

by: yodavt @ Thu Jun 28, 2007 at 16:11:44 PM UTC