Let Me Rephrase That...Another Take On H.520

this argument makes more sense to me (0.00 / 0)

We'll have to see how it plays out.

undercaffeinated

---

by: odum @ Wed Jun 27, 2007 at 20:46:33 PM CDT

I hope so... (0.00 / 0)

Because it's as close to your argument as I could come! :)

(Perhaps, you may have noticed that I changed Gaye Symington's "saddened" line to "disappointed" this morning....just for you, John.)

-AB

---The victors called the revolution a triumph of liberty; but now and then liberty, in the slogans of the strong, means freedom from restraint in the exploitation of the weak.

--Will Durant, "The Story of Civilization: Caesar & Christ"

---

by: goDLC @ Thu Jun 28, 2007 at 05:46:04 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Plays out? (0.00 / 0)

What's to play out? They've taken the VY tax off the table, he won't even sit down to talk to them, so what are they going to do? It doesn't seem feasible that they could go back, keep the VY tax, and sell it to the reluctant membership based on Douglas's unwillingness to talk to them.

 There are grassroots Democrats all across the state who are pissed off at leadership, and this isn't going to help.

---

by: Jack McCullough @ Wed Jun 27, 2007 at 22:10:02 PM CDT

whats to play out... (0.00 / 0)

...is whether or not they cave on the actual content of the bill.

I'm beginning to think that the biggest flaw of the VY tax proposal is that this funding source itself has become more important to many on the left than the actual global warming-fighting provisions in the law itself. The support for renewables, the expansion of Efficiency Vermont - the real revolutionary stuff - seems to be secondary at best to a lot of folks, who were really amped over that VY tax.

undercaffeinated

---

by: odum @ Wed Jun 27, 2007 at 22:34:33 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

How does this work? (0.00 / 0)

I'd like to, John, but I don't see it playing out the way you and I would both like it to. Meanwhile, every Democrat I talk to about this is pissed, and every Prog is saying, "You see, this is what the Democrats are like." It doesn't look like a winning strategy to me.

---

by: Jack McCullough @ Wed Jun 27, 2007 at 23:05:12 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I think that's my point, Jack... (0.00 / 0)

In my original post, I alluded to Limbaugh's "carrying water" comments...

...I am usually more than willing to carry water for Democratic Leadership...I trust Leahy, Sanders, and Welch to do the best they can to stop Bush...I argued against second guessing them on the impeachment issue....

....I supported Gaye Symington's decision not to second guess them, too.

I am, in other words, a pretty loyal democrat ... when they lost someone like me, I humbly assert, it was a sign that they had REALLY cut too close to the bone.

---The victors called the revolution a triumph of liberty; but now and then liberty, in the slogans of the strong, means freedom from restraint in the exploitation of the weak.

--Will Durant, "The Story of Civilization: Caesar & Christ"

---

by: goDLC @ Thu Jun 28, 2007 at 05:38:22 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Well,,, (0.00 / 0)

Maybe it's a learning moment for you, too, and I say this with the best intentions... loyalty to a party usually involves you getting taken advantage of and let down. It's loyalty to ideas that get you somewhere. Having a "D' behind one's name shouldn't be enough. I have had no confidence in Symington from day one. I've got mixed feelings on our delegation, but I'm certainly not "loyal" to them. They have done nothing to deserve my "loyalty".

You can read more of JD Ryan at five before chaos. But why would you want to?

---

by: JDRyan @ Thu Jun 28, 2007 at 08:43:04 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Not to get to far into a side issue... (0.00 / 0)

...but I have to say that party discipline has it's place.  Ideals are the stars by which we steer, but we must also do things of practical, earthly value...and to do that, we must all pull on the same rope in the same direction from time to time.  This is why I give our congressional delegation the benefit of the doubt.  I am "loyal" in the sense that I am going to work really hard to accept the direction chosen by the elected leaders of the time until such time as I absolutely cannot, in good faith, compromise my own opinions any further...

As far I am concerned, someone with a D behind their name gets the benefit of the doubt until they prove they are not worthy (can we say Lieberman?) of trust.  Someone with an "R" is not trusted until they do something to earn it. 

 

---The victors called the revolution a triumph of liberty; but now and then liberty, in the slogans of the strong, means freedom from restraint in the exploitation of the weak.

--Will Durant, "The Story of Civilization: Caesar & Christ"

---

by: goDLC @ Thu Jun 28, 2007 at 14:23:29 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

and I've been sayin (0.00 / 0)

since my first post on it that I dont think its good strategy.

But thats different from saying they just gave up on the bill, when - again - the bill is intact. The problem is that they've set themselves up for failure when it counts.

undercaffeinated

---

by: odum @ Thu Jun 28, 2007 at 06:07:40 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Yes, you have.... (0.00 / 0)

In all fairness, you have done.  But I think, as you write in your new diary on the subject, you might have missed the true magnitude of the blunder.

Again...I've been a bit bitter on this, but I mean none of it personally. 

 

---The victors called the revolution a triumph of liberty; but now and then liberty, in the slogans of the strong, means freedom from restraint in the exploitation of the weak.

--Will Durant, "The Story of Civilization: Caesar & Christ"

---

by: goDLC @ Thu Jun 28, 2007 at 13:35:44 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I'm willing to see where this goes (0.00 / 0)

I really want this energy bill to pass, and while I like the idea of taxing Vermont Yankee fairly to get it funded, I'm not nearly as concerned about that as I am about the energy bill itself.

The fact is, right now, there doesn't seem to be enough support for the bill as is to get it passed, and there were several people who voted against it citing the VY tax as their only concern.  This might actually shift things enough to override a veto. 

Or it might not.  We'll know soon enough. 

I don't have a problem with the Democratic leadership making one concession if they're sure they can get it passed with that concession, and I hope they -can- get it passed like this. This seems to be more a strategic PR mistake on their part than a policy error and I'm a little tired of focusing so much on the PR aspect of everything.

juliewaters.com

---

by: JulieWaters @ Fri Jun 29, 2007 at 05:06:52 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Ahhh... (0.00 / 0)

I feel less like a lone voice in the wilderness. Was beginning to think I must be delusional.

undercaffeinated

---

by: odum @ Fri Jun 29, 2007 at 07:07:00 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

This explains a few things... (4.00 / 1)

I'm probably just a figment of Odum's imagination.

--possibly julie

juliewaters.com

---

by: JulieWaters @ Fri Jun 29, 2007 at 16:03:00 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Great speech (0.00 / 0)

You should be writing for Gaye and Shummy.

---

by: Jack McCullough @ Wed Jun 27, 2007 at 22:10:40 PM CDT

Michael Colby Sums it up... (0.00 / 0)

Here - http://vermontsnarkyboy.blogspot.com/2007/06/cowardly-lion-dems-strike-out-again.html

 Shumlin is an asshole.

---

by: peterbrunovt @ Thu Jun 28, 2007 at 00:29:58 AM CDT

From this morning's Times-Argus (0.00 / 0)

Douglas cancels meeting with lawmakers on energy bill June 28, 2007 By David Gram Associated Press MONTPELIER ? Gov. James Douglas canceled a meeting set for Wednesday with key lawmakers on an energy bill, his spokesman saying the Democratic leader of the Senate was playing politics with the issue. "We're canceling this meeting because it's quite clear to us that Senator (Peter) Shumlin (D-Windham) is not interested in negotiating in good faith. He's more interested in scoring political points and turning this issue into a media circus," Douglas spokesman Jason Gibbs said of the Senate's president pro tem.

For more click here.

Me thinks Jason might be reading over here at GMD, no?

"Why is it a penny for your thoughts but you gotta put your two cents in? Somebody out there is making a penny." -Steven Wright

---

by: Brattlerouser @ Thu Jun 28, 2007 at 04:19:30 AM CDT

GOOD! (0.00 / 0)

If the Governor Canceled the meeting....GOOD! 

 Then lets go with the bill AS IS....

Let's be BRILLIENT WITH OUR PUBLICITY FOR THE NEXT 13 DAYS.

Let's GO DOWN FIGHTING WITH PRIDE, WITH HONOR, WITH CONVICTION

Let's then PLAN HOW TO GET THE MESSAGE TO VERMONT THROUGH THE SUMMER AND FALL (the Republicans are awesome at this kind of thing...I see press conferences in the broiling sun...press conferences next to wind power people who PAY higher taxes than nuclear plants, etc. etc.  Come On People....let's play Ball!)

Then...

Let's COME BACK NEXT JANUARY RESOLVED TO WIN ON THIS ISSUE.

---The victors called the revolution a triumph of liberty; but now and then liberty, in the slogans of the strong, means freedom from restraint in the exploitation of the weak.

--Will Durant, "The Story of Civilization: Caesar & Christ"

---

by: goDLC @ Thu Jun 28, 2007 at 05:32:18 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Right on (0.00 / 0)

goDLC,

<> An honorable defeat this session is going to be much more galvanizing than a mushy compromise.  As you say, come back in Jan and kick ass!

 

<>

---

by: SPS @ Thu Jun 28, 2007 at 08:16:33 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Thanks... (0.00 / 0)

... from a blogger who's opinions I've come to respect, I appreciate that!

---The victors called the revolution a triumph of liberty; but now and then liberty, in the slogans of the strong, means freedom from restraint in the exploitation of the weak.

--Will Durant, "The Story of Civilization: Caesar & Christ"

---

by: goDLC @ Thu Jun 28, 2007 at 13:30:52 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

lost oppertunity (3.00 / 1)

How much will Douglas have to pay the Democratic Party to keep these clowns in positions of "leadership"? They certainly make it EASY FOR HIM TO ROLL OVER THEM.

yODA

---

by: yodavt @ Thu Jun 28, 2007 at 11:11:44 AM CDT